| Author |
Comment | ElmerJFudd
Guru
Posts: 3653
Loc: USA
(07/05/06 11:29 AM)
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Please consider lobbying Apple for better support.
OK, friends. I think it is time to be heard. I suggest we start with Apple first if only because Yamaha tells us it is Apple that is holding things up.
If you would, please. Copy and paste this letter and send to three places.
1. Christine Wilhelmy, Pro Apps Media Relations/Pro Audio, Video & Photo Apps. If she isn't the person to contact, she certainly should know who is (sorry for the flood of e-mails in advance, Christine).
cwilhelmy@apple.com
2. Logic Pro Feedback Form
http://www.apple.com/feedback/logic.html
3. Mac OSX Feedback Form
http://www.apple.com/macosx/feedback/
-------------------------------------
To whom it may concern,
I am a customer of both Apple and Yamaha products, as well as a member of Keyfax's 01xray.com forums (a community of mLAN users including Apple customers). Our members are growing increasingly frustrated by a lack of advancement in mLAN for OSX. We have been told on more than one occasion that although mLAN is a YAMAHA technology, Apple is a partner in its development for OSX and things can not advance without Apple's support.
Most of the early issues with mLAN for Windows XP have been addressed in updates to Yamaha's mLAN tools for XP (now on version 1.5.5). However, major shortcomings in the software on OSX (1.0.6) have mired mLAN's advancement as a viable professional standard for music production on Apple computers. Our technically capable users are relegated to unusual workarounds to make the most out of what really should be cutting edge audio-midi-networking on "the world's most advanced operating system", OSX.4 Tiger.
Areas that need immediate attention:
1. A random offset in all audio recorded through mLAN. Please read an explanation here:
http://www.01xray.com/forums/showflat.php?Cat=7&Board=01X_Macintosh&Number=266296&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=&fpart=1&vc=1
2. An incomplete graphic patchbay. We are unable to split mLAN I/O. The patchbay is essentially crippled in comparison to its XP counterpart.
3. mLAN for OSX does not allow for any device other than the Mac to serve as wordclock master.
4. mLAN for OSX suffers from inefficient use of CPU and CPU "bursts" or "spikes" during performance.
At this time we implore Apple Computer to acknowledge their customers concerns and commit to a resolution.
Sincerely,
[Your Signature Here]
----------------------------------
If anyone stumbles across a person or place we can contact at Apple, please let us know.
Thanks for your help and commitment to mLAN these past few years.
Sincerely,
EJF
White MacBook '09 (4gb RAM), OSX.5.8, v.1.2 mLAN tools, Logic 9, 01X, S90ES, i88x & i88x
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  | ElmerJFudd
Guru
Posts: 3653
Loc: USA
(07/05/06 11:41 AM)
Edit - Reply |
Re: Please consider lobbying Apple for better support.
Consider this... we have known what the major issues with mLAN are since April of 2005. Acelera posted a "state of affairs to Yamaha" here on 01Xray at that time after all the months we had been beta testing for them (not only were we not paid to beta test - as most beta testers aren't... but we paid THEM for our gear!).
http://www.01xray.com/forums/showflat.php?Cat=7&Board=01X_Macintosh&Number=184151&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=&fpart=1
It is now over a year later and still nothing.
This has gone on long enough. Please help out with this effort, and feel free to bring up any other steps that we can take to get our point across and, more importantly, get mLAN for OSX up to speed.
Thanks,
EJF
White MacBook '09 (4gb RAM), OSX.5.8, v.1.2 mLAN tools, Logic 9, 01X, S90ES, i88x & i88x
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| ElmerJFudd
Guru
Posts: 3653
Loc: USA
(07/10/06 09:15 AM)
Edit - Reply |
Re: Please consider lobbying Apple for better support.
On July 6, 2006 I received a very brief "unofficial" reply to our letter from one of Apple's audio engineers. I'll withhold his name for now until I see where this is going (or until I see we aren't getting an official response from Apple).
This Apple engineer wrote simply,
code:
Could you point me to where Yamaha say that:
"OK, friends. I think it is time to be heard. I suggest we start with
Apple first if only because Yamaha tells us it is Apple that is
holding things up."
Thanks
This was my response to him:
In reply to:
Thanks very much for getting back to me. We have been waiting years for Yamaha
& Apple to make good on a promise to make mLAN on OSX a reality. XP development
keeps moving forward, but Mac users have been left with an immature facsimile of XP’s
performance and features. They have told us time and time again that Yamaha is taking
care of certain aspects and Apple others - specifically that mLAN tools come from Yamaha
but the rest is integrated in OSX and depends on OS updates from Apple.
I'm going to point you to a few quotes from Yamaha's guys that have brought us to your
door on this mLAN issue. For starters, there was great disappointment among
Yamaha/Apple users after Winter NAMM when we discovered that all development for
mLAN on OSX was stalled... again. Here is Athan Billias (head of marketing for tech
products at Yamaha) in his own words attempting to explain to us why mLAN on OSX is
not moving ahead.
http://www.ademusic.com/yamnamm.mp4
Athan goes by Yamaha_US on the forums, and here is their last official response to our
growing frustration. Paragraph four specifically implies that they are waiting on Apple.
http://www.01xray.com/forums/showflat.php?Cat=7&Board=01X_Macintosh&Number=247914&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=&fpart=1
Yamaha recently released version 1.0.6 of the mLAN tools for OSX. It addresses none of
the shortcomings of the protocol and drivers, it simply runs on Apple's new Intel Macs.
Why migrate to an Intel Mac and have the same problems with the software? We need
some meaningful fixes that work on both Intel and PPC Macs.
I, and many other users in the Yamaha/Apple music community have thousands of dollars
invested in this technology and there are major flaws in its current incarnation that I am sure
can be addressed within just a few updates from the two companies. At this point it looks
like it's either Apple's fault or Yamaha is trying to do everything they can to shift blame and
appease us until we just go away.
There are some very bright and talented people involved with mLAN on Apple computers.
By April of 2005 we already knew where things needed to be improved, and we let Yamaha
know in this post.
http://www.01xray.com/forums/showflat.php?Cat=7&Board=01X_Macintosh&Number=184151&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=&fpart=1
It's now July '06 and we are nowhere.
Anyway, I don’t want to sound like I am ranting. Although, I guess I am. I hope you
have enough information to present to the right people at Apple. I am more than happy to
assist in any way that I can. As you may know, I tried to reach Christine Wilhely in the pro
audio PR department. She has not responded.
Please keep me updated if you can.
White MacBook '09 (4gb RAM), OSX.5.8, v.1.2 mLAN tools, Logic 9, 01X, S90ES, i88x & i88x
Post Extras:
| velvet
Guru
Posts: 648
Loc: Space, wheresoever is enough ice to skate on
(07/10/06 09:38 AM)
Edit - Reply |
Re: Please consider lobbying Apple for better supp
Excelent work Elmer. Thank you.
"We've made a contact!" Now I feel like in a spy-movie from World War2 
01x, i88x, PowerMac QUAD G5 2.5,
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| Bazza
Experienced
Posts: 60
(07/10/06 10:51 AM)
Edit - Reply |
Re: Please consider lobbying Apple for better supp
Done!
Post Extras:
| ElmerJFudd
Guru
Posts: 3653
Loc: USA
(07/10/06 03:19 PM)
Edit - Reply |
Re: Please consider lobbying Apple for better supp
I received an e-mail from an audio engineer at Apple today in response to our recent e-mail campaign.
I believe, to a certain extent, he is clarifying and supporting what Yamaha has been telling us. Certain aspects of mLAN rely on Apple's firewire audio driver. They know what needs to be done and they are in contact with Yamaha about it. Confirmation of this from both companies is a positive for us. Now if they they would both start to release updates in a timely fashion, I'm sure we could all get on with our day.
I will paste that e-mail here. Thank you very much for being proactive about mLAN on OSX.
code:
I appreciate the time and effort you have taken to let both Apple and
Yamaha know of the concerns that you have with support provided by
Yamaha in Mac OS X.
As you know the Yamaha software uses the IEC61883-6 streaming in the
Apple FireWire Audio driver, the Yamaha mLAN software relies on the
integrity of this streaming.
Apple are aware of the stream start latency issues.
Apple's policy is to not comment on upcoming release schedules or the
availability of features that will be released in upcoming revisions
to Apple's Mac OS X operating system software.
We continue to work with Yamaha and we will work with Yamaha to keep
our mutual users informed of updates to Mac OS X as they become
available.
Thanks so much for letting us know about your concerns relating to
these issues.
Best regards
Nick
White MacBook '09 (4gb RAM), OSX.5.8, v.1.2 mLAN tools, Logic 9, 01X, S90ES, i88x & i88x
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| ElmerJFudd
Guru
Posts: 3653
Loc: USA
(07/10/06 04:10 PM)
Edit - Reply |
Re: Please consider lobbying Apple for better supp
Here is a copy of the e-mail Yamaha is responding to us with:
code:
Thank you for using Yamaha mLAN products. We are sorry for our delay in
replying, but we wanted to forward your message to all the right people and
get their input.
We Yamaha understand the situation with the current mLAN Driver/Tools for
Mac OS X and we have determined that the described issues do occur. We are
working closely with Apple to address these issues and will keep our users
pro actively informed when we have any additional news.
Best regards,
Yamaha Corporation
Sales & Marketing Group
Music Production Business Unit
Pro Audio&Digital Musical Instruments Division
White MacBook '09 (4gb RAM), OSX.5.8, v.1.2 mLAN tools, Logic 9, 01X, S90ES, i88x & i88x
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| ElmerJFudd
Guru
Posts: 3653
Loc: USA
(07/10/06 04:15 PM)
Edit - Reply |
Re: Please consider lobbying Apple for better supp
One of our 01Xray friends got this response from Apple regarding the CPU spiking issue in mLAN for OSX.
code:
This is a follow up to Bug ID# 4611755. After further investigation it has
been determined that this is a known issue, which is currently being
investigated by engineering. This issue has been filed in our bug
database under the original Bug ID# 4389899.
Thank you for submitting this bug report. We truly appreciate your
assistance in helping us discover and isolate bugs.
White MacBook '09 (4gb RAM), OSX.5.8, v.1.2 mLAN tools, Logic 9, 01X, S90ES, i88x & i88x
Post Extras:
| valmundo
Enthusiast
Posts: 495
Loc: Fort Lauderdale, Florida
(07/10/06 07:15 PM)
Edit - Reply |
Re: Please consider lobbying Apple for better supp
I dont know, but all those seems like the comments were scripted responses from Apple.
I guess the good thing about it is that they are acknowledging that the problems do exist.
Post Extras:
| ElmerJFudd
Guru
Posts: 3653
Loc: USA
(07/10/06 07:49 PM)
Edit - Reply |
Re: Please consider lobbying Apple for better supp
Val,
I would say "scripted" only in the sense that Nick's wording is careful not to break Apple's corporate policies. On the other hand, the mail acknowledges that it is Apple's firewire audio driver that is responsible for the random offset issue. In the other post they also admit to CPU spikes as a known issue... as you say, "acknowledging that the problems do exist".
What the response lacks is what neither Yamaha nor Apple are willing to do, and that is give us a time frame in which these things will be rectified. Anyway, I didn't say I was pleased with the answer, Just that we have received one.
White MacBook '09 (4gb RAM), OSX.5.8, v.1.2 mLAN tools, Logic 9, 01X, S90ES, i88x & i88x
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