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Newcomer
Posts: 7
(07/27/06 09:04 PM)
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Re: Please consider lobbying Apple for better supp
"Firewire Audio as defied by IEEE is a public standard that was developed from Yamaha's original specification for mLan to be precise. All firewire audio as we know it today derives from these public specifications in one way or another."
I heard it was the other way round, i.e. mLan runs beside the ISO stuff, and mostly concerns ways of patching streams together; but I could well be wrong -- I wasn't there, and I haven't seen the mLan spec itself (though I do have the relevant parts of the ISO spec, and it's low-level enough). Have Yamaha made the mLan spec available publicly at last?
I can't find it, although the mLan site from Japan has a year-old news item about submitting something "for realizing mLan device" to the AES -- which is very interesting, but there's not been a call for comment yet, as far as I can tell.
As always, there's lots of language on the Japan site about licences, patents, and technical support, which indicates to me that Yamaha are still not interested in opening the spec, but I hope I'm wrong.
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Acelera
Guru
Posts: 2791
Loc: London, UK
(07/27/06 09:45 PM)
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Re: Please consider lobbying Apple for better supp
Yamaha's work on firewire audio and mLAN goes back ten years now and a lot of the research was freely put into the IEEE firewire audio specification itself. Long, long before even mLAN 1.0 devices saw the light.
Regarding opening the mLAN standard, that's what the Open Generic Transporter is for. That's how it already runs in Linux and how an mLAN chipset is no longer a requirement to build an mLAN audio interface.
http://www.myspace.com/aceleramusic
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data
Newcomer
Posts: 7
(07/27/06 10:33 PM)
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Re: Please consider lobbying Apple for better supp
"Yamaha's work on firewire audio and mLAN goes back ten years now and a lot of the research was freely put into the IEEE firewire audio specification itself. Long, long before even mLAN 1.0 devices saw the light."
Wait .. is there an IEEE spec for F/W audio? I thought it was only ISO. (Well, there's also the MIDI thing, but that's not pertinent.) I don't mean to nitpick -- I really am curious.
I didn't know Yamaha had done the streaming part, but it doesn't surprise me. Good on them for letting that out.
"Regarding opening the mLAN standard, that's what the Open Generic Transporter is for. That's how it already runs in Linux and how an mLAN chipset is no longer a requirement to build an mLAN audio interface."
OK, that's freakin' cool. I had never heard of OGT before this. Is that spec out, and if so, do you know where it is? I can't seem to find it -- Google is failing me, and I saw nothing on aes.org.
Anyway, I have about thirty respect points all ready for Yamaha if this is what I think it is. Thanks for telling me about it!
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davecanada
Guru
Posts: 649
Loc: Washington D.C., USA
(07/27/06 10:45 PM)
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Re: Please consider lobbying Apple for better supp
Also, the firewire streaming spec is from IEC, not ISO, although they do do a lot of joint specs, don't they? Anyway, it's IEC 61883-6 aka AMDTP. This is actually even implemented in open source, in every linux kernel around since 2.4.14 or so... and lots of boxes use it for streaming. Google pulls up Roland, Terratec and all the Bridgeco based boxes using it. While Yamaha introduced that spec to IEC and made it open, it holds back the magic that allows for dynamic routing and configuration of a system.
This article is a pretty good one on mLan developement by a "closed" open source group... http://linuxaudio.org/en/press/lud53-Audio_Libre.pdf
Dave
01x, i88x x3, EzBus
24" iMac 2.16ghz
Cubase 4.1, Lotso plugins
Guitars ++
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davecanada
Guru
Posts: 649
Loc: Washington D.C., USA
(07/27/06 10:55 PM)
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Re: Please consider lobbying Apple for better supp
Er, what's "open" about the "open generic transporter"? That's part of the licensed mLan spec that you have to pay license fees just to read, isn't it?
From what I've seen of the linux development, I found myself a little frustrated. This code was dumped there 2 years ago:
http://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=111032
It doesn't use autoconf and needs a lot to build on 2.6, AFAICT. (I've haven't written a driver since my 8-bit assembly days. ). I gave up after a couple of hours, thinking I could make music instead 
Dave
01x, i88x x3, EzBus
24" iMac 2.16ghz
Cubase 4.1, Lotso plugins
Guitars ++
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Acelera
Guru
Posts: 2791
Loc: London, UK
(07/27/06 11:04 PM)
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Re: Please consider lobbying Apple for better supp
The OGT is all about spreading mLAN and cutting the costs down as practically anything with a transport agent and a firewire controller can support it. The idea behind this being that virtually anything can become an OGT node and form part of an mLAN network.
There was a thread on here somewhere with a link explaining all the background work on this and what these Linux chappies are working on now. Perhaps someone can dig it up for everyone's benefit.
Needless to say, this project has nothing to do with the ALSA mLAN shambles.
http://www.myspace.com/aceleramusic
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davecanada
Guru
Posts: 649
Loc: Washington D.C., USA
(07/27/06 11:19 PM)
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Re: Please consider lobbying Apple for better supp
Not the Daniel James article from my earlier post above? If you can find the link to the other thread, I'd love to read it.. 
BTW, My comment on the "open" part was just that all this work is completely boxed up, and *not* open in the vernacular sence. I don't know what it costs now, but it used to cost $1800 just to get the spec, followed by $900 per year to sustain the license.
http://www.giles.com/yamaha1/pressreleases/ProAudio/mLan.htm
I don't think we're going to see many "tainted kernel" messages anytime soon. (those are the annoying messages generated when a linux kernel loads a module that isn't GNU licensed - it complains about the *capitalist* piece of precompiled software tainting it...).
oh well..
Dave
01x, i88x x3, EzBus
24" iMac 2.16ghz
Cubase 4.1, Lotso plugins
Guitars ++
Edited by davecanada (07/27/06 11:21 PM)
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Acelera
Guru
Posts: 2791
Loc: London, UK
(07/28/06 02:32 PM)
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Re: Please consider lobbying Apple for better supp
It's on the general forum. And I've quoted it two or three times since. Where's the 01xray curator when you need him?
http://www.myspace.com/aceleramusic
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Acelera
Guru
Posts: 2791
Loc: London, UK
(07/28/06 02:49 PM)
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Re: Please consider lobbying Apple for better supp
I had nothing better to do than find it, obviously:
http://linuxaudio.org/en/press/lud53-Audio_Libre.pdf
http://www.myspace.com/aceleramusic
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davecanada
Guru
Posts: 649
Loc: Washington D.C., USA
(07/29/06 06:48 AM)
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Re: Please consider lobbying Apple for better supp
Er... Ace, look up! (scroll to 07/27/06 10:45 PM)
...that's precisely the same link that I had posted earlier, and then asked you if it was the same article...
oh well...
Dave
01x, i88x x3, EzBus
24" iMac 2.16ghz
Cubase 4.1, Lotso plugins
Guitars ++
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